Monday, December 29, 2008

Can I really become a Mormon Goddess, I asked the LDS missionaries and they said it is possible :)? —Jennifer

then they invited me to the LDS place in my town and said if I believe Joseph Smith and what he wrote down and stuff then I might be able to become a Goddess and rule over my own planet, I was like wow really ? because I asked them about it, and they told me. My neighbor said to ask them about it
Yep, is that awesome or what? I'll tell you what, if you make me your leader then after you're dead and buried I'll make sure you become a magical princess with fairy wings and a wand for turning rocks and pebbles into chocolate. All I ask is 5% of your income for life, half price!

By the way, before you sign up to be a Mormon Goddess, consider that you and your sister wives will be responsible for birthing all those spirit babies, worlds without end. Predefined gender roles don't end with death in Mormonism.

Saturday, December 27, 2008

Since Joseph Smith was a polygamist why did the Mormon church quit practicing what the prophet taught? —Y Knot

They never renounced the doctrine. Polygamy was discontinued in the LDS church because it was illegal to practice and the church lost its fight against the Edmunds–Tucker Act. Times have changed, though. I think the church's worst nightmare today would be if anti-polygamy laws were repealed. Then who's gonna tell Bednar he can't have a couple more wives? ;)


Saturday, December 20, 2008

Is being a mormon really that unattractive? —happy_endings93
I kind of feel bad about it because i love the religion, but does it really affect that much my chances of getting dates etc? I mean.. i'm not going to be preachy or anything i'm not like brain-washed or anything, but i do have my standards. I don't know, i feel normal, but i don't know ha ha is being mormon really that bad ?? just need some opinions, maybe what happened if you ever dated a mormon how it went etc yess.... lol thanks

Interesting question. I know when I was Mormon I always felt like I was being held to a different standard, but now I'm not sure that's what was really happening. Now that people know I've left the faith, they seem to let their guards down around me. To your point, I've discovered that people who didn't think much of Mormonism were still polite and respectful to me. But mostly what seems different now is that they no longer feel that I, as the Mormon in the group, am judging *them*.

So I guess what I'm suggesting is that you turn this question around. Ask yourself, is it really that unattractive to me that someone *not* be Mormon? And I don't just mean because they haven't heard the gospel yet, but is it really and truly OK with you that this potential dating partner does not buy into Mormonism? Are you putting out a vibe that your "standards" are not just different but actually *better* than theirs? If so, I could see that affecting your chances of getting dates.

[Bonus points if you can name the video pictured above.]

Sunday, December 14, 2008

When the Mormon Latter Day Prophet had a revelation and blacks were allowed into the priesthood in 1978, is it? —Val

just a matter of time before another 'revelation' is forthcoming when the day comes that the Mormon Church will allow gay marriage.
Yes, I really think so, but not under current law of course. The real issue here is tax exemption, and when the IRS decides an organization is no longer serving the general community interest and revokes its 501(c)(3) status, that's the sort of thing that causes revelation to happen.

That is exactly what was happening in 1978 with Bob Jones University and its admission policies for black students. The Supreme Court eventually upheld the IRS's decision that racial discrimination could be cause for revocation, on the grounds that tax exemption carries a cost for all tax-payers.

In the distant future, if Mormonism survives at all (and I think it will), there will be female bishops, gay couples in full fellowship, and temple weddings open to nonmembers. But only when the community conscience makes it inevitable. God's one true church has not exactly been a trailblazer in the civil rights arena.

Thursday, December 4, 2008

What about Mormon beleif do you think is wrong? ? —Grace F

Here's the problem. Living things were created spiritually first, then physically. Spirits don't die, and even bodies become immortal after the resurrection. OK, so say people on average live about 86 years or whatever, and produce a few kids during their lifespan. No problem so far, right? All these people live, die, and then enjoy the hereafter in some other sphere that's pretty much just like this one only cooler.

All right, but what about their pets? A dog's lifespan is much shorter, and they give birth in litters. You used to have one dog at a time, but now all those little guys are immortal and sharing space with you in your eternal mansion. It's getting complicated, but wait.

Some animals live only a few years, and reproduce at much faster rates still. Do you get where I'm going? The ratios of people to animals are all off in Mormon heaven. Do all the little bunnies and froggies get their own planet to infest, or will we constantly have to watch our step to avoid them? And we haven't even talked yet about bugs, spiders, and mosquitos. And by the way what will the immortal mosquitos eat with their little bloodsucking mouths? Not blood, naturally.

Other than that, Mormon beliefs make perfect sense.
Are there any mormons that have left the church? —group account

What happened when you did leave? Can you provide a link so I can TALK to someone about what I am going through.
There are and always have been people who leave. Interesting how once you escape the believing mindset and find yourself on the outside, you discover there are crowds of people here who've done the same.

Mormonism does not work for everyone, for lots of different reasons. In the past the church has done a remarkable job of disenfranchising those people and "protecting" believers from their disbelieving neighbors and family. They're sinners, or lazy, or couldn't live the standards. Or when none of those labels fit they must be too intellectual or proud. When all else fails, they become "the very elect," a nice backhanded way of complimenting and neutralizing them all at once.

But we're here now, the web gives a voice to the unwashed masses who proclaim that the emperor has no clothes. Thanks to the brave souls who left before us without a community to turn to, there is now support to be found all along the way. I wish you the best on your journey, and feel free to message me.


Sunday, November 23, 2008

What is a Mormon.....? —nine :]

Can someone summarize what a Mormon is? :)
They're just people born into the Mormon faith. Most Mormons are good people, as you'd expect with any group. Their religion informs their view of God and heaven, and it also extends into their relationships with families and loved ones. It's a very holistic faith, which works very well at bringing together families and communities—so long as everyone in the group is Mormon. Mixed families work around it of course, but "the church" is always an impediment in those cases.

My extended family is mostly Mormon. They're smart, educated people who try to live as they believe they should. They give a lot of time and money to church in one way or another. For those who fit in (not gay, able to swallow the truth claims, interested in serving a mission and then marrying young and having kids), it seems to give them comfort and make them happy.

Their church claims to be the one true Christian church, restored by God and Jesus to Joseph Smith. It's a compelling story really, and would clear up a lot of confusion about the Bible and its doctrines ... if it held up to scrutiny. Still, most aspects of Mormonism are no more nutty than any other religion, and most members are blissfully unaware of the most damaging evidences that contradict their faith.

Saturday, November 8, 2008

Why did the mormon church pour 25 million into Prop 8 and then? —Peace

have the nerve to be confused as to why people are angry with them? One mormon guy even said he was hurt that gays were calling the mormon church bigots. Now that it's passed, they don't want anger directed their way. Yes, alot of non-LDS people voted yes for prop 8, but the Mormon church was HEAVILY involved in promoting prop 8 and donated 25 million dollars. They were almost obsessed with it. Now they suddenly have this persecution complex. Why?
You're right, and it wasn't just money. Mormons were the biggest supporters in terms of man hours, setting up phone banks, putting up signs, and going door-to-door. They read a letter over the pulpit to all Mormon congregations in California asking for support, and they requested donations from wealthy Mormons across the country. I can't do better than this response I saw today on a message board (edited for language):

I ... hate the church's press release saying that they're disturbed that they are being singled out for exercising their rights.

[Idiots], you aren't being singled out for exercising your rights; you're being singled out because you're wrong. Free speech doesn't mean people don't get to speak back to you, or that your ideas get a free pass from criticism. Free speech means that you get to say your piece, and then everyone else gets to respond.

We're responding. Do you hear us at your gate?

7th grade civics, people.

Friday, November 7, 2008

Can someone please help me with the what to read in the Book of Mormon? —Roxin_Ronni

I'm a non-member and have recently been getting lessons from the missionaries. Usually they write out a few scriptures for me to read but they didn't this time and i really want to read it but im unsure where to start or something that would be good to read that I haven't yet read. Any advice?
Tell the missionaries you read 3 Nephi 3:22 and you're curious about the horses, chariots, cattle, flocks, herds, and grain it talks about. Ask them, "Are you telling me this happened in America around A.D. 17?"

Or for some real fun, read the story of the Jaredite barges (Ether 2:13–24; 6:1–12). If you can get through that and still believe this book is actual history, I predict a baptism in your future. Just don't be surprised if your friends and family aren't convinced, or if they're turned off by the history of polygamy or the current fight against homosexual rights.

How much does even one goat, sheep or cow eat in a year?

These are grazing animal, but they can't graze on the ocean; and they don't eat fish. Their grasses and grains have to be stored on board. A goat eats 2 - 3 pounds/day. Even a pony eats about 8 pounds/day. Let's sensibly use 3 pounds X 344 days. That's 1,032 pounds of feed per animal. That's a lot of bulky weight to lash down to prevent it crashing around when the ships roll, and even flip upside down.

Thursday, November 6, 2008

Was it was mostly mormons and evangelicals that made prop 8 ...and campaigned to get it passed? —Dillenger

i now consider these people my enemies. i'm not exagerating...i dont care if thats immature.
these people work to make discrimination acceptable, legal, and even popular.

they are hate groups as far as i'm concerned.

these bigots are scum of the earth

do you think i'll get over it?
i wont.
It's not immature to recognize evil and call it out. It's shameful what the Mormon church has done to perpetuate discrimination and bigotry. Having said that, though, I'm sure the Mormons and others who voted for Prop 8 were sincere in their belief that this is what God wants them to do. So I hope you can at least partly refocus your anger on the institutions rather than the believing members.

Aaron C wrote: "I really don't see it that way at all. The thing that Christians, Mormons and many other people were worried about was losing our own freedoms. Our freedom to believe differently if we choose. Never did I see the Mormon church striving to push rights be taken away for Gay couples. In fact, I'm pretty sure I heard them say that they should have the same rights as any other couple, but that marriage should be reserved for one man and one woman. If Prop 8 had not passed, it is very likely that in the next 10 to 20 years, we could lose our right to believe and teach that homosexuality is a sin. It could be considered hate speech and we would be persecuted."

Dude, does that really all make sense in your brain? You feel Prop 8 was necessary to protect you from being persecuted for hate speech? Here's an idea: stop with the hate speech. Give that a try and see how it works.

Monday, November 3, 2008

Should the Mormon church lose it's tax-exemption status because they are fightin hard to pass Proposition 8? —xinio654

Under current law, no. But if you're asking how things "should" be, then yes they should lose tax-exempt status for this reason, as well as for their discrimination against women, for their exclusive wedding ceremonies, for their fraudulent truth claims, and most of all for their boring church meetings. In a perfect world, that is.

Orchidmg wrote: "All I can say is that it's the pastor's right to tell members who to vote for because God's laws come before man's laws."

True, orchidmg, but this question isn't about rights. It's about whether the federal government should subsidize them through tax exemption. When it turns out, through some strange coincidence, that God hates the same people his followers hate, they should have the right to say so. On their dime.

As man is
So is his God,
And thus is God
Oft strangely odd

Saturday, November 1, 2008

Who are your favorite bible or book of mormon characters?—superchick773

Oh there are definitely some good ones. Some not even named in the BoM itself:

Zelph, the white Lamanite
Mahonri Moriancumr, aka the brother of Jared

Then there's the dude in Ether named Ethem (see how that consonant changed there?) who executed judgment in wickedness all his days, "and he begat Moron."

And don't forget Shiz (was that another consonant change there?) who struggled for breath and died AFTER being beheaded. Awesome.

Friday, October 24, 2008

What reasons do mormons have for leaving their churches? —BabyBumblebee

My boy friend is a mormon. I'm a good christian girl and devout in my faith, but he seems intent on undermining it. Frankly his religion scares me and seems a bit cult like. I want to get him to see this, but don't know how. So I just wanted to know what reasons ex-mormons have for leaving their churches.
Hi BabyBumblebee, I'm an ex-Mormon and I'm an atheist, which means I'm an ex-Christian as well. If you and your boyfriend are both willing to investigate your beliefs objectively—if you're willing to follow the evidence wherever it leads—then chances are you'll BOTH end up dropping your religious faith.

If, however, he wants to undermine your faith and isn't willing to examine his own, your relationship is not on equal ground and is in serious trouble. You may each stick with your own beliefs, but he won't respect your beliefs and you clearly don't respect his. Better to move on in that case.

Personally I hope you both decide to investigate things, because I think life is just plain better without abdicating your time, talents, and decision making to a church based on false claims. But if you're afraid to do that with your own faith, you can bet your boyfriend is too.

Pinkadot wrote: "It's interesting to me that people who get 'no answer' think its a 'NO' answer... very interesting."

If that's not a "no" answer, Pinkadot, then the whole thing is a farce. Let's play a little game: I'm holding a piece of paper in one hand that says I'm right. There's nothing in my other hand. You pick a hand. If you pick the one with the paper, that proves I'm right. If not, pick again.

Monday, October 20, 2008

Prop 8 Mormon support? —SMS

I am conflicted. I am gay, was raised mormon left the church when I was 27. I am close to my parents who strongly support Calif prop 8 (they even have a sign in their yard). My mother will be singing in the Orange County Mormon Choral Organization Christmas program performed at Renée and Henry Segerstrom Concert Hall. Do I attend this program though I think the church is so off base and is one of the strongest supporter for Prop 8?
Your mom knows you're gay, right? She should be ashamed of herself and her stupid sign. Institutionalized bigotry is still bigotry, and you should not give her a free pass just because her church has done the thinking for her.

I think you have every right to tell her how offensive this is, and how much you wish she'd take the high road and stand up to her church. Someday her views will be seen for what they are: pure evil, in the same category as white supremacy and slavery.

But I think the Christmas program is a separate issue. As the other poster said, you're supporting your mom, not the organization.

Ender wrote: "Those who are fighting against Prop 8 are doing so because they are trying to force the homosexual agenda into homes, schools, and churches."

Want an inside view of the homosexual agenda? Here ya go:

Ender also wrote: "How long before someone sues the church and tries to remove the tax exempt status because of our 'hateful' policy of heterosexuality."

That, sir, is a very good question. And I suspect it won't be long after that the prophet receives a revelation that ends discrimination against gays. Don't you wish you belonged to an organization that would lead the way on moral issues? This battle is another embarrassing chapter in the modern legacy of Mormonism.

Tuesday, October 14, 2008

What are some good things to write to a boyfriend who is now a mormon missionary? —skitt

I was a Mormon missionary. Things it would have been helpful for people to say to me:

Be careful out there. Don't assume you're safe from injury or accident or illness because you're on the Lord's errand. Missionaries can and do get hurt, especially if they don't take care of themselves.

Be respectful of the people and culture. In Korea I saw missionaries take "funny" pictures at Buddhist temples, talk disparagingly in English about people right in front of them, etc. I'm not just talking about being a good example, but rather not carrying an attitude that everything about the local culture is stupid and inferior to our way of doing things. There's probably a reason they do things the way they do.

Live on your own terms. Mission life can be hard. The pressure to baptize is enormous. It's difficult work with little reward, and too often missionaries internalize the guilt trips put on them by companions and leaders when the numbers don't meet expectations. Tell him to give himself a break, he's a volunteer for heck's sake.

Oh, and send photos so he can show you off to the locals and other missionaries.

Monday, October 13, 2008

Was Joseph Smith so creative that he made up the Book of Mormon?—OBEY Sinner

This is near the top of the list when it comes to "Things Mormons don't understand about ex-Mormons." How can you not believe when the BoM is so clearly beyond the abilities of a young Joseph Smith? I'll take a stab at it, on the off chance someone's really interested in understanding us deluded apostates.

The first thing I should say is that I've read the book cover to cover at least six times, and of course read here and there throughout my 30+ years as a believer. This may surprise you, but the BoM doesn't seem especially miraculous or inspiring to me. I mean I always assumed that it was exactly what Joseph claimed it to be, but once it loses that luster it also loses its profundity. If that makes sense.

Next, your question is more an assertion than an inquiry. The implication is that an author would have to be remarkably creative to come up with this story. I would ask, compared to what? I'm no author, but I can walk into a library and find shelves stacked to the ceiling of stories I couldn't have come up with myself. If Joseph Smith wrote the book alone, he was certainly creative. So what? He also wrote the Book of Commandments, the Book of Abraham, and an Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar.

And that, of course, leads to another point: no one knows the whole story of the book's provenance, and no one ever will. Believers sometimes content themselves with the fact that we critics don't have a cohesive story to tell that counters the miraculous version Joseph purports to be true. It's an interesting mystery, I suppose, and I wish I could put it to rest, but all the witnesses are long dead. So speculating is all we can do.

That said, virtually any of the hypothesized versions of events are more believable to me than the official version. I don't know if Joseph wrote it alone, used other sources, received it chapter by chapter from the angel Sidney ... but I'm pretty sure he didn't get it from disappearing gold plates engraved in Reformed Egyptian. That's just not credible. Sorry.

And the last point I would add is that, authorship aside, the book itself is its own biggest detriment. It simply cannot be a real history of ancient Hebrews living in America. Jeff Lindsay can explain away each of the apparent anachronisms, but the list is a mile long. And meanwhile no one outside of believing Mormons or enterprising Central American tour guides has found a shred of evidence supporting its claim. This is not a case of God allowing some evidence for and some against; it's not a 50:50 by any stretch. To be a believing Mormon in these latter days requires either trusting ignorance or willing delusion. Google will be the end of Mormonism as we know it.

Edit: For slcbtf and his 23-point challenge for someone to write a similar book, I hope you realize the gigantic assumption you're making here. Who says the test of true Scripture is that it come out just exactly like the Book of Mormon? That's circular reasoning. The odds of someone's genome coming out exactly like yours are infinitesimally small, and yet you exist, don't you?

Sunday, October 12, 2008

Do you think there could be a connection between Ken Jennings intelligence and his religion? —Alissa

He's Mormon. I was just watching him on "are you smarter than a 5th grader" and decided to post a question. He won a butt load of money on Jeopardy for those of you who don't know who he is.
Sure they're connected, in the sense that his intelligence and his religious beliefs share space in the same noggin. But no, I don't think being religious makes you smart, or being smart makes you religious. I think a person's proclivity toward spirituality or religious involvement has far more to do with personality types than IQ.

Smart people may be better at articulating why they either believe or disbelieve, but smarts isn't what got them there.

Tuesday, October 7, 2008

Mormons, do you really believe that the book of Mormon is historically accurate? —Katie C

If so, then how do you explain the many inconsistencies in geographical places and cultures that never existed?
I agree with the Mormon responders that your question isn't helpful since it doesn't offer any evidence of the inconsistencies you're referring to. But I guess it really doesn't matter anyway. Religion is like a card trick, where the "magic" has already happened before the sleight of hand even begins. It's not about what "answer" you got to your prayer; the trick is in convincing someone that prayer works in the first place, and that it's a valid way of discerning truth.

Once someone buys into that premise, it's a foregone conclusion they'll end up convinced. Joshsybs offers a good example in his answer: "Is it a history book? To answer your question - I'm not sure, and I don't really care." He then asks, "Out of curiosity, what inconsistencies do you refer to?" but is there any point in answering? Your question is a valid one, Katie C, but it just won't reach the believing mind. Evidence isn't what got them there.

Friday, October 3, 2008

Can you provide me with one reason why the Mormon Church is false?—Madison

What's the point? Are you willing to entertain the possibility of it being untrue? Not to burst your bubble, but when you're honestly ready to deal with that possibility you may even find that it's ... obvious, Rosskopf's link notwithstanding.

If you're truly at that stage where you've decided you want to know the truth at all costs, the easiest topic to start with is probably the Book of Abraham.

For a modern translation of the recovered papyri fragments, including facsimiles, see Robert K. Ritner, "The 'Breathing Permit of Hor' Thirty-four Years Later," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 33 (Winter 2000):101,

Robert Ritner: "Smith's hopeless translation also turns the goddess Maat into a male prince, the papyrus owner into a waiter, and the black jackal Anubis into a Negro slave."

Wednesday, October 1, 2008

How much does the current mormon church have in common with the 'original version' of Joseph and Brigham? —Tik

Or to put it another way, if you are a mormon and you could be transplanted back to Salt Lake in the 1850's and lived next to Brigham et. al, how much do you think you would have in common with him?
Let's see, did anyone speak in tongues at your last Relief Society meeting? Do men and women sit on the same side of the chapel? Does your patriarchal blessing say that you will live to see the Second Coming? And does it really seem like a small thing to you that Mormons then practiced polygamy? Not to mention Brigham Young believed Adam was God, so you arguably don't even worship the same being.

I think I get where the LDS responders are coming from, since it's widely taught that doctrines do not change and truth is everlasting. But that's problematic when you consider that people in 1850 did believe it was *doctrine* that a man needed to embrace polygamy to make it to the Celestial Kingdom. Then Gordon Hinckley says, "It's behind us." We believed that God was once a man, then Gordon Hinckley says, "It's more of a couplet."

Brigham Young taught that black people were less valiant in the preexistence and could only go to heaven as slaves. Is this still taught? Of course not. Joseph F. Smith insisted that the earth was 6,000 years old. Joseph Smith taught that the sun borrows its light from Kolob. It isn't just practices that have changed, things that were specifically taught as revealed doctrine also change. If you can't see that, you're uninformed or in serious denial.

Monday, September 29, 2008

Good ways to convert a mormon? —MizzyMac

Whats the best way to convert a mormon to becoming a Catholic/Christian?
Just explain to them that while their myths are patently ridiculous, yours are perfectly rational. I don't see the problem.

Mormons What would you do if Christian call themselves mormon? —Tinkerbelle2007

but never went to the mormon church, That why most christian get upset when you call yourself christian
Well Ender's is clearly the best answer here: "Christianity is a category, not a specific denomination. A Baptist, by definition, is a Christian. A Christian, however, is not by definition a Baptist." The logic in your question is faulty.

Your question would have more relevance if you instead asked why Mormons want to be accepted as "Christians," yet refuse to accept the fundamentalist Latter-day Saint groups into the fold of "Mormons."

Gordon B. Hinckley to Larry King: "There is no such thing as a 'Mormon Fundamentalist.' It is a contradiction to use the two words together."

Sunday, September 28, 2008

I have a question about the Book of Mormon.? —TR R

What were the Secret Combinations? Were they rituals of some sort of were they almost like a motion (like a sign or a handshake) that set themselves apart?
At the time of the BoM's publication, the secret combinations spoken of were widely believed to be a reference to Freemasonry. The anti-Masonry movement was in high gear during the years prior to the book's appearance, and the BoM clearly condemned these secret societies. Of course the irony is that Joseph later joined the Masons and presumably patterned his temple ordinances after Masonic ceremonies.

Somehow Mormons make this all work though. Maybe the Masons and the Gadianton robbers were practicing Satan's counterfeit version of the secret handshakes.

Friday, September 26, 2008

I am SO confused about what I believe! I can't get out of my head what I was raised.? —☆Jaimé☆

I was raised as a Mormon. I am 16 years old and I don't want that anymore. Once I move out at 18 I want to wear tank tops and never visit an LDS church again.
I am struggling to forget what I was raised. I was raised that the mormon church is true, everything they says is true...But I don't want to got to Heaven or Hell, I don't want to believe there is a God...How do I get that out of my head? I mean, I kind of believe it, but I don't want to. I don't want to believe God is controling my life, that I am part of his plan. I want my own plan. I don't want to believe in him...Can I get this out of my head?

Additional Details

Oh wow, you guys are all so nice! I'm going to email you all to thank you! I was worried about the responces I would get, but you've all been so nice, thank you!
IT'S NOT ABOUT THE TANK TOP PEOPLE! I was just giving you an example!!! I'm not leaving the LDS religion FOR AN Fing TANK TOP!
Isn't it weird that a 16-year-old's apathy toward religion sends all the Mormon responders into defensive "testifying" mode? 'But it IS true! Really!' You are one powerful young lady. Cool

Have you tried joining an online support group? The most well-known is It really isn't easy to get disentangled from something as all-encompassing as Mormonism. Give yourself time to work through this, and for the Mormons who care about you to adjust to the new you.

And if you really want to get out from under the whole God paradigm, I suggest you tell him so yourself. I'm serious. If your experience is anything like mine he'll cower and hide. Or maybe try out a new god who really kicks butt, like Thor. Or better yet, Mr. Deity (who also happens to be a former Mormon).


Tuesday, September 23, 2008

LDS- What have you learned (specifically not generally) from the Book of Mormon? —I know why

I learned that ancient Americans had cattle, horses, sheep, pigs, and cell phones. They had steel swords, chariots with GPS navigation, and made their enchiladas with wheat tortillas. But they were good Christians who stood firmly against ancient Unitarians, ancient Deists, and assorted agnostic riffraff.