tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36428449112818895302024-03-13T18:20:21.123-06:00Digital PlatesAn account written by the hand of ElGuapo upon the webElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.comBlogger249125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-13744374609570734352011-12-04T00:40:00.008-07:002011-12-10T21:11:45.881-07:00Shaking off the dust<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://potential2success.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Waking-up1.jpg"><img style="float: left; margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; cursor: pointer; width: 218px; height: 167px;" src="http://potential2success.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Waking-up1.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a>Well it's been a while since I've posted. Looking around I see that Mormon leaders have not yet announced a press conference to concede that their truth claims really don't seem at all plausible and therefore members should consider their options for how to spend the remainder of their lives. So it seems I still need a place to vent about the strange world I inhabit and all the continual harm this church does to otherwise wonderful people and relationships.<br /><br />Here's a recent sampling. On<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif"><img style="cursor: pointer; width: 188px; height: 19px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a> someone asks,<br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><blockquote>Why do mormons not give their children the right to choose religions?</blockquote></span><h1 class="subject"></h1>My response:<br /><br /><blockquote>Why don't you give your children the right to stand at the edge of a cliff? Mormons believe theirs is the one true church, and the only path to making their family "eternal." Nothing matters more to them, nothing else matters at all really if they're true believers. And yet at the same time they really need for these children to feel they own that choice to remain Mormon.<br /><br />That's why you always see parents announcing that their 8-year-old has "chosen" to be baptized. Those always crack me up, like the kid has just completed a rigorous study of all possible belief systems, narrowed it down to either Mormonism or Jainism, tried each for a while, and Mormonism (the Brighamite version) finally won out.<br /><br />Delusional? Yes. But within that framework the masked coercion makes perfect sense.</blockquote>The fear of outside information runs deep in Mormonism. Mormons will read non-Mormon fiction, watch non-Mormon entertainment or whatever, but if a subject touches in any way on matters of faith, then only Mormon sources will do. And since Mormonism's correlated explanation of Jesus' life and mission is so unambiguous and clear, so is their understanding of it. There's no nuance, no curiosity about, say, the various interpretations of the different New Testament authors. No recognition of the contribution of Paul to Jesus' legacy. It all just boils down to how to give your life to the Mormon church from the earliest age until death, and then how to ensure your funeral is used as a conversion tool for others.<br /><br />This church is a cancer. I want to see it dealt with, and I want to help people who are trying to figure out how to live outside of it. A woman who posted occasionally on PostMormon.org ended her life recently, a closet nonbeliever in Boise who lost hope for any kind of happiness or acceptance. There are consequences to maintaining lies about the world we live in, even comforting ones.ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-84024266550381891712011-02-25T00:25:00.003-07:002011-02-25T00:29:45.672-07:00What lies beneath<span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br /></span><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif"><img style="float: left; margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; cursor: pointer; width: 159px; height: 16px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">How to dismiss Mormon theology in a philosophical/intellectual way? —AR</span><br /><br />What lies beneath every Mormon "testimony" is something called Moroni's promise: the idea that if you pray to know if Mormonism's truth claims are real, you will feel a positive reassurance in your heart that they are. Nevermind the fact that lots of people don't immediately feel any such thing, and kids raised Mormon actually work actively to gain this testimony (somehow without ever entertaining the possibility that the promise therefore failed).<br /><br />So yeah, even ignoring the "heads I win, tails you lose" approach Mormons take to Moroni's promise, the real philosophical problem is the promise itself. WHO SAYS that a good feeling about the book means it's true? Well, the book itself says so. You'd think this would cause Mormons to doubt the source of these "divine" confirmations in their heads, but it never does. The whole basis of Mormons' faith is a simple confidence trick.ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-65639465743179833072010-07-20T21:27:00.002-06:002011-02-17T21:32:15.994-07:00The cost of discipleship<span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br /></span><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif"><img style="float: left; margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; cursor: pointer; width: 159px; height: 16px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">How do I tell my mom I want to be Mormon? —linda<br /><br /></span> <blockquote><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">Ive already prayed about the book of mormon and i know it to be true, i have a great testimony of the church. My mom is convinced the church is weird and somewhat of a cult. But I know the truth and I dont kow how to tell her I love going to church and I love the truth in it? How do I tell her I want to take the missionary lessons? And what if she says no?</span></blockquote>I'm sorry, but you can't make things true just by wishing it were so. It's your life so do what you like, but joining the Mormon church is not worth whatever social benefits you might expect to come from it. <a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://iheartwellness.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/wish-upon-a-star.jpg"><img style="float: right; margin: 0pt 0pt 10px 10px; cursor: pointer; width: 250px; height: 242px;" src="http://iheartwellness.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/wish-upon-a-star.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a>Your Mormon friends are not trying to lead you astray, but somehow they haven't got the message that the stuff you read in the Book of Mormon could not possibly be real ancient American history. It's a 180-year-old scam that only survives because people who've given their lives to it are afraid to check it out and admit they've been boondoggled. <br /><br />Source(s):<br />"It is morally as bad not to care whether a thing is true or not, so long as it makes you feel good, as it is not to care how you got your money as long as you have got it." —Edmund Way TealeElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-1943255070903881302010-07-18T21:16:00.003-06:002011-02-17T21:24:38.588-07:00Deconstructing Mormonism<span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br /></span><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif"><img style="float: left; margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; cursor: pointer; width: 159px; height: 16px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">Can anybody tell me what they know about mormon history? —brew<br /><br /></span> <blockquote><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">im ex mormon only now digging into mormon history. particularly i am concerned with joseph smith i find him very interesting.</span> <span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"> you may find it interesting that only after losing interest in the church, do i find interest in its beginnings. let me tell you, there is great effort within the church to keep people ignorant of certain historical facts while emphasize certain others, and admonishing youth for exploring "the devils literature" ect .....</span></blockquote><br />I agree that the church's history becomes more interesting once you take the blinders off. I don't think the typical church member or leader tries to keep people ignorant of its unfiltered history. They either believe <a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhPz_kmLfPybvk1o80vZEdg-7X04OoFtggtiVmN-AOZj3z6c2r5Hfojwul0IotpYe5FwuBmUHTHmAU6RbJtGRlVX_9j_b5ogrKB7E0IWCm4EsVprruATx8sC_BOzgflDeB_fd3JjbhDpJ9h/s1600/Boyd+Satan.jpg"><img style="float: right; margin: 0pt 0pt 10px 10px; cursor: pointer; width: 175px; height: 206px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhPz_kmLfPybvk1o80vZEdg-7X04OoFtggtiVmN-AOZj3z6c2r5Hfojwul0IotpYe5FwuBmUHTHmAU6RbJtGRlVX_9j_b5ogrKB7E0IWCm4EsVprruATx8sC_BOzgflDeB_fd3JjbhDpJ9h/s200/Boyd+Satan.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5574880227555289234" border="0" /></a>Boyd K. Packer's idea that not all things that are true are useful, or in many cases they probably just don't know what they don't know. But the church institution itself certainly has developed a pattern of suppressing, cherry picking, or just plain rewriting its history. You'd have to have a pretty narrow definition of lying to say that the church is honest about its beginnings.<br /><br />And maybe that's part of what makes Mormon history so interesting—the fact that for so long the church succeeded in controlling the message and marginalizing critics in the eyes of the faithful. I think what happens over a generation or two of faith-promoting storytelling is that the stories become entrenched, some people become heroic and legendary, while others become cautionary tales.<br /><br />Then you get someone like Fawn Brodie who comes along and writes (pretty sympathetically actually) about Joseph Smith but without deference to the powers that be, and it's no wonder there was an uproar over her biography. Another biography that I think is of equal caliber is "Mormon Enigma" by Newell and Avery. That one's actually about Emma Smith, but at least the first half of the book up until Joseph's death is very relevant to your search I think.<br /><br />Please add a comment if there are specific areas of church history you're interested in, and I'm sure I or others can make some good recommendations.<br /><h1 class="subject"></h1>ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-12686635025163718142010-07-17T21:09:00.001-06:002011-02-17T21:13:56.986-07:00Credulity preparedness<span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br /></span><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif"><img style="float: left; margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; cursor: pointer; width: 159px; height: 16px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">Why are some people prepared to read the Book of Mormon and others not prepared? —John quill Quill</span><br /><br />Why are some people prepared to learn about evolution? Prepared to fight for marriage equality even when it doesn't help them personally? The wording of your question betrays your ignorance. By the way I've read the book cover to cover. It's a joke.<br /><h1 id="yui_3_2_0_1_1298001669870210" class="subject"></h1>ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-55166118466376763232010-07-16T20:37:00.000-06:002011-02-17T21:13:44.319-07:00Garden variety religion<span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br /></span><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif"><img style="float: left; margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; cursor: pointer; width: 159px; height: 16px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">So the Book of Mormon can't be true because we believe Adam was a real person? —Tom</span><br /><br /><blockquote style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">Lots of people don't believe humans evolved from apes.<br /><br />I fail to see the logic in saying that just because we believe the story of the Garden of Eden was a historical event, this automatically means Mormonism is false.</blockquote><br />I wish you would say more about how you see the Garden of Eden story fitting in with what we know about the world today. It's a fable, Tom, written before people had discovered germs, or atoms, or of course DNA. And just to clarify, we haven't "evolved from" apes. We evolved from earlier versions of hominids, who would be classified as primates just like us.<br /><br />Anyway, I take you to mean that belief in Adam and Eve must be rational because lots of people believe it. <a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://ldsblogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/adam-eve-alter-mormon1.jpg"><img style="float: right; margin: 0pt 0pt 10px 10px; cursor: pointer; width: 250px; height: 338px;" src="http://ldsblogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/adam-eve-alter-mormon1.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a>Lots of people also believe in UFOs. That's not evidence of anything except the credulity of the average person.<br /><br />And finally, the Garden of Eden story could be absolutely true and it would still be ridiculously obvious that the Book of Mormon is contrived. Do you know anything about ancient Native Americans that you didn't learn in Sunday school? What did they eat? What animals did they have? What technology? What about their language and writing? Just pick one subject, ANY SUBJECT!, and see if what you learn looks remotely like the history you read in the Book of Mormon. I'm sure it doesn't seem like it now, and you probably think I'm just being a jerk, but the day you finally realize that Joseph Smith made the whole thing up will be the best day of your life. You're welcome. :)<br /><br />@Adam: Don't keep us in suspense. What's the evidence you see that makes you think the BoM is literal history? So the more you learn about ancient Americans' agriculture, technology, language, etc., the more it looks like 3 Nephi 3:22? Have you contacted National Geographic to let them know?ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-75088705516621129872010-06-11T00:14:00.003-06:002010-06-11T00:31:14.254-06:00The numbers game<span style="font-weight: bold;"><br /></span><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif"><img style="float: left; margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; cursor: pointer; width: 159px; height: 16px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><blockquote><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">What would be the total membership of the lds mormon church if no-one had ever removed their name or been exed? —jacarre</span></blockquote><br />The reported numbers would probably be the same. For starters, I don't think there are nearly the number of resignations that some ex-Mormon sites estimate. There's a commonly cited source that puts the number of resignations at around 100,000 annually, but my hunch is it's far fewer, maybe a few thousand. Just anecdotally, I personally know dozens of people who were baptized Mormon but no longer believe, practice, or self-identify as Mormon. Of all those, how many have actually formally resigned? I think two, including myself.<br /><br />Again, it's just a hunch and only the church really knows, but I think the resignation thing is mostly a web phenomenon. People who participate in ex-Mormon communities online are far more likely to send a letter to the church, for one thing because they know they can. Most people just move on or "go inactive." And yes, I agree that there are a ton of inactive Mormons who actually do still believe, so I could care less if the church continues counting these people to make their numbers look better. But the bottom line is the church's bottom line cannot be reconciled. The number of people that drop off the totals each year isn't nearly enough even to account for the death rate in a population that size.<br /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://living-las-vegas.com/wp-content/uploads/Megabucks-Jackpot.jpg"><img style="float: right; margin: 0pt 0pt 10px 10px; cursor: pointer; width: 301px; height: 226px;" src="http://living-las-vegas.com/wp-content/uploads/Megabucks-Jackpot.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a>In summary, they may or may not be removing ex-members like me from their numbers. They're certainly removing members who are known to be deceased. But there's a huge number of once-baptized "Mormons" out there who the church is not in contact with, and these folks are assumed (if online sources can be believed) to be alive until age 110. Hence the inflated total membership numbers. And of course if they were to report actual weekly meeting attendance, or number of full tithe payers, then the remaining active members out there would really know how large a crowd they're part of.<br /><br /><blockquote><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">gintzer wrote: "They don't hide the #s, they announce them at General Conference and print them in the Ensign magazine every year."</span></blockquote><br />The numbers they share in General Conference are almost completely meaningless, and are irreconcilable with reality. You know, sort of like the story of the Jaredite barges.ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-21291013287828742032010-05-02T15:12:00.004-06:002010-05-02T15:17:57.487-06:00Will the real Nephi please stand up?<span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br /></span><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif"><img style="float: left; margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; cursor: pointer; width: 159px; height: 16px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">Was there really a person named Nephi who actually lived in the Book of Mormon? —LIFE</span><br /><br /><div class="content">Yes, there's a Nephi in the Book of Mormon. More than one actually. Are you asking whether the book itself is historical and not something cobbled together by Joseph Smith and perhaps others? That's an obvious no. None of the purported history from the Book of Mormon looks remotely like what we know about ancient America today. It fails every test one could throw at it—agricultural, linguistic, technological, metallurgical, cultural, you name it. Every test, that is, except the one the Mormon responders here keep pushing: that you should ignore all contradictory evidence and pray for a good feeling about the book. Feeling is knowing. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.<br /><br />Anyway, the name you asked about, Nephi, is not in the King James Bible like many of the other Book of Mormon names. It is, however, in the Apocrypha, which was part of the Smith family Bible. If it were the name of an ancient Hebrew, being translated into English in 1830, you'd think the spelling would be phonetic, like Nefi. Then again, you'd think all of the thees and thous and thus sayeths would have no place in a modern translation either. Seriously, how obvious does it have to be?<span style="font-weight: bold;"><br /><br /></span>Source(s):</div> <div class="reference">See <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephi#cite_note-38" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephi#cite_…</a><br /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://www.jimmyakin.org/images/marktwain.jpg"><img style="float: left; margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; cursor: pointer; width: 119px; height: 168px;" src="http://www.jimmyakin.org/images/marktwain.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a>"The book seems to be merely a prosy detail of imaginary history, with the Old Testament for a model; followed by a tedious plagiarism of the New Testament. The author labored to give his words and phrases the quaint, old-fashioned sound and structure of our King James's translation of the Scriptures; and the result is a mongrel—half modern glibness, and half ancient simplicity and gravity. The latter is awkward and constrained; the former natural, but grotesque by the contrast. Whenever he found his speech growing too modern—which was about every sentence or two—he ladled in a few such Scriptural phrases as 'exceeding sore,' 'and it came to pass,' etc., and made things satisfactory again. 'And it came to pass' was his pet. If he had left that out, his Bible would have been only a pamphlet." —Mark Twain, <span style="font-style: italic;">Roughing It</span></div>ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-36293833006144499602010-04-13T09:23:00.006-06:002010-04-13T09:39:20.313-06:00Doubting, No Greater Sin<span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br /></span><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif"><img style="float: left; margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; cursor: pointer; width: 159px; height: 16px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">When Mormons mention the outer darkness, what does that mean?</span> —Dandaman <blockquote><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">Sort of like Hell? Is there Hell in your beliefs?</span></blockquote>There's not really a hell in Mormon doctrine. Everyone gets saved, except the sons of perdition. The closest Mormon equivalent to hell is a temporary place called "spirit prison." That's where bad people go when they die, until they've adequately suffered for all their unrepented misdeeds. Thieves, abusers, violent criminals, they'll all find their way to Mormon paradise eventually.<br /><div class="content"><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://www.forgottenword.org/hell.jpg"><img style="float: right; margin: 0pt 0pt 10px 10px; cursor: pointer; width: 209px; height: 324px;" src="http://www.forgottenword.org/hell.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a>Not so for the real bad guys, though—the ones who used to know the church was true, who had a testimony, went through the temple, served in callings, and then denied the faith. No redemption for those guys. That's right, that guy who broke into a house and tried to kill a little girl with a hammer: saved. Ex-Mormons like me: not so lucky.<br /><br />So beware all you faithful Mormons, you could be one questioning thought away from outer darkness. It's not a cult, just the way God rolls. He's mysterious like that.<span style="font-weight: bold;"><br /><br /></span>Source(s):</div> <div class="reference"><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_checklist#Steven_Hassan" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_checkl…</a></div>ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-56854261652374823362010-04-11T20:17:00.002-06:002010-04-11T20:28:28.157-06:00Blinded by the subtle craftiness of email<span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br /></span><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif"><img style="float: left; margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; cursor: pointer; width: 159px; height: 16px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">Mormon question about the website? —Artisticat</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"></span><blockquote><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">Every time I go there to request a bible, or request someone come visit me, they say something about an incorrect e-mail. Anyone else have this problem? I'd like to go back to church, but it's hard with our sleeping schedule, so I might ask for bible study visits or something. I was baptized at 14.</span></blockquote><br />Others will answer you better, but I just have to say I love this question. What you didn't know is that when you were 14 you were one of the 200,000 or so converts that year that made all the other active, tithe-paying Mormons feel better about their church. The stone clunks forth. Well at least you solved their retention problem. Somebody needs to look into this email glitch so the 10 million lost Mormons out there can reconnect with their faith.ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-7962790876949308872010-04-02T10:27:00.007-06:002010-04-02T11:20:32.614-06:00Frequently Avoided Questions<span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br /></span><a href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif"><img style="float: left; margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; cursor: pointer; width: 159px; height: 16px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">JW's and Mormons, What do you believe about evolution? —Chris the 4th</span><br /><br />There's no consensus view on evolution in Mormonism. The faith's leaders have grown increasingly reluctant over the decades to make statements that may later be shown false where faith and science intersect. In my experience I've found most Mormons are antagonistic toward evolutionary theory in general, but aren't quite willing to repudiate it. It's something that—like molecular genetics, homosexuality, and the Book of Abraham—they wish would just go away.<br /><br />Sunnyrains96 wrote: <span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">"Personally, as an LDS member, I keep an open mind. I believe that I was created in the image of my Father, but I also know that there's a lot of history of the world that wasn't recorded. I think that there probably was some evolution involved somewhere, but I wouldn't dare say where or how. I like to think that science and religion often are arguing two sides to the same story and if people on both sides could drop their defenses for just a moment they would see that both sides can be right at the same time."</span><br /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://www.cindyjonessculpture.co.uk/no_evil/Hear_no_Evil_front.jpg"><img style="float: right; margin: 0pt 0pt 10px 10px; cursor: pointer; width: 225px; height: 225px;" src="http://www.cindyjonessculpture.co.uk/no_evil/Hear_no_Evil_front.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a>I'd say the above response is pretty indicative of what most Mormons believe. And something tells me she's not very interested in learning more about evolution, unless it's a Mormon source offering reassurance that somehow it all works out in the end and that most importantly, "the church is still true."ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-35568921058166571452010-02-25T00:09:00.002-07:002010-02-25T00:25:05.948-07:00Following Satan's trail to the truth<span style="color: rgb(51, 0, 0);"><br /></span><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 159px; height: 16px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(51, 0, 0);">Why do people hate the LDS church? I see people picketing the Mormon temples? —Ethan M</span> <blockquote><span style="color: rgb(51, 0, 0);">but rarely if ever any other church. Why is that?</span></blockquote><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://www.utahpublicradio.org/media/Opera/Michael%20Ballam.jpg"><img style="margin: 0pt 0pt 10px 10px; float: right; cursor: pointer; width: 180px; height: 175px;" src="http://www.utahpublicradio.org/media/Opera/Michael%20Ballam.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a>Most people don't go looking for a fight with a church. If you've been raised Mormon then you've probably been told all your life about the "enemies of the Church" and how Satan works through these people to try to stop Mormonism somehow. I totally get the idea that this persecution means Mormonism must be all it claims to be (or else why is Satan fighting so hard to stop it, right?). But you might do well to consider something for a moment.<br /><br />What if Mormonism wasn't all it claims to be? What if people go to such efforts to stand up to it because it is somehow impacting them negatively? If that were so, wouldn't the church still claim it was being persecuted because it is True™? In other words, once you accept the proposition that the more people say we're wrong the more it proves we're right, you're caught in a positive feedback loop. That's fine if you're only interested in protecting your belief from contradictions, but don't kid yourself that it's evidence of anything. I'm sure the Flat Earth Society and the Holocaust deniers use similar logic to defend their views.ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-68491269514149812832010-01-25T00:21:00.005-07:002010-01-25T00:50:28.122-07:00Mormonism product review<span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br /></span><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 159px; height: 16px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">What are pros and cons of </span><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">the mormon religion? —Ricky M.</span> <blockquote><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br />NO HATE. I just want both sides of the story.</span></blockquote><br />It's like this. If everyone you care about is Mormon; if the pre-scripted life that Mormonism advocates suits you; and if you have no reason to doubt the veracity of its truth claims—then Mormonism is absolutely wonderful. Really, I think it is. Mormonism takes a big, inscrutable world and makes it small and understandable. There's a purpose, and a plan. And you're loved. And those you love are never lost. You have a foolproof method for making optimum decisions. You have a community and solidarity. You are needed. And best of all, you never even have to consider your own mortality. Because of course death isn't really death. You, yourself, this individual with your DNA, lived before and will go on living after mortal life ends. How cool is that?<br /><br />As for the cons, see above. If anyone you care about is not Mormon, or heaven forbid has rejected it for any reason, you're left feeling wounded. What if they don't make it? What if your eternal family is broken up? What if you didn't do enough to help them? What if you don't have anything to talk about that isn't wrapped up in church happenings?<br /><br />I'm being a little facecious there, but there's a sinister side to this too. What if it's a spouse who leaves the faith? Do you divorce? There's a story like this every day on the ex-Mormon boards. What if it's a child who strays? Do you welcome them to family gatherings? Do you trust them? Do you still pay for their college? What if they're gay? Will your child be one of Utah's male teen suicides? Now that's sobering. (A little Mormon joke there.)<br /><br />And speaking of being gay, that's one of many traits that might make the Mormon lifestyle unsuitable for some. Me, I liked scouts, church, being a missionary. I wanted to get married and have kids. Enjoyed teaching lessons, didn't hate being a priesthood leader. But it's not for everyone. Maybe it works for you, and maybe that's all that matters.<br /><br />Finally, the whole thing can only work if you really truly believe in it. Not such a difficult proposition forty years ago, like say when the Joseph Smith papyri were rediscovered and translated. We didn't have google then, or discussion boards full of informed people outside the faith community. If you like the idea of the world I described above and want to be a Mormon, I wish you the best. But you should probably tread carefully here on the worldwide web, because for some reason all that ridiculous anti-Mormon literature seems to convince some people that Joseph Smith just made things up as he went along. Like polygamy, and temple rituals, and the Kirtland Safety Society. Or the Book of Abraham.<br /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://hotelnetcell.com/images/buying.jpg"><img style="margin: 0px auto 10px; display: block; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 398px; height: 79px;" src="http://hotelnetcell.com/images/buying.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a>ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-53829743207323389872009-12-17T19:53:00.002-07:002009-12-17T20:02:20.797-07:00I Yam What I Yam<span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br /></span><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 159px; height: 16px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">Does belonging to the lds mormon religion make people happy? —Zeezrom</span><br /><br /><div class="content">Now that's a good question. I think the short answer is that no one could ever really say definitively, because we don't get to live our lives out two different ways and compare the results. But anecdotally at least I can tell you that when I was Mormon I, like most believers, did attribute my happiness to my knowledge of gospel principles. Take that away, and I think in general I'm neither more nor less happy than I was before. Your mileage may vary.<br /><br />The funny thing about that is I can see Mormons reading this and thinking I'm either lying or deceiving myself, because surely I must have been happier as a Mormon—unless I wasn't really living my religion, in other words unless I was sinning. I'll come back to that aspect of Mormonism, but on the flipside I can also see other ex-Mormons reading this and thinking, "What do you mean you're not happier now?!!"<br /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://www.livingnutrition.com/images/popeye_yam.jpg"><img style="margin: 0pt 0pt 10px 10px; float: right; cursor: pointer; width: 215px; height: 297px;" src="http://www.livingnutrition.com/images/popeye_yam.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a>It turns out for most of us that happiness is a pretty nebulous concept, and humans are not very good at either remembering past or predicting future happiness. What we are good at is justifying whatever decisions we happen to have made by telling ourselves it turned out for the best. So Mormons are inclined to say things in testimony meeting like, "I don't know where I'd be without the church," like they'd be awful people if it weren't for the three hours they sit in church every week. And ex-Mormons are probably just as likely to feel that their lives are immeasurably deeper and richer without the blinders on. I tend to agree with the ex-Mormons there, which probably just means I'm a normal self-justifying human.<br /><br />My point is not to say that happiness is unrelated to religious beliefs. Clearly the idea of gaining joy and happiness is central to Mormon beliefs, even if a large part of it is in the form of future happiness, like some gigantic post-dated check. But Mormons are also taught that faithfulness brings blessings in the here and now, and once someone accepts that premise it works in two ways to keep them faithful. One, they naturally attribute all the happiness they do enjoy to God's blessings; but secondly, they have no one to blame but themselves when they don't feel happy. It's almost shameful to be unhappy in Mormonism (must be sinning!), which might explain why Utah leads the nation in antidrepressant usage.<br /><br />The bottom line is when I try to imagine myself living again as a Mormon the thought turns my stomach, but when I actually believed it all it wasn't so bad. I guess what I'm getting at is that the decision of whether to be Mormon or not is not about weighing which will bring the most happiness for you and your loved ones. Beliefs just don't work that way. If you accept the church's truth claims you'll also accept what it teaches you about your own happiness; if you find the truth claims impossible to swallow then no utilitarian argument in its favor is likely to keep you in.<span style="font-weight: bold;"><br /><br /></span>Source(s):</div> <div class="reference"><span style="font-style: italic;">Stumbling on Happiness</span>, Daniel Gilbert<br /><span style="font-style: italic;">Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me)</span>, Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson</div>ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-32057948791013167052009-12-11T00:54:00.007-07:002009-12-11T01:14:26.692-07:00Truth comes knocking<span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br /></span><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 159px; height: 16px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">Why are Mormon Missionaries rejected when they usually have the persona of innocence and humility? —Unapologetic Apostate</span><br /><br /><blockquote><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">Every single missionary I've come across smiles and is so friendly, so why are they rejected so much when they are so nice?</span></blockquote>It's not just a persona. They're nineteen years old. Most were raised in predominantly Mormon communities with a rather skewed view of what life is like for people without the fulness of the gospel. So innocent, definitely yes. Humble, maybe not so much, but then even after their missions it's a rare Mormon who recognizes the arrogance of claiming knowledge that is mystically hidden from the rest of us through sin or being unprepared or whatever.<br /><br />And really, that's the reason I think that the mishies' message is largely ignored. Most people in this day and age recognize that important, life-changing, reality-based truth is not going to come from two kids knocking on your door. Period. You can get your vacuum cleaner cheaper on Ebay, and you can get your facts straighter from Wikipedia.<br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://googlified.com/files/fsm-google-doodle.jpg"><img style="margin: 0px auto 10px; display: block; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 343px; height: 240px;" src="http://googlified.com/files/fsm-google-doodle.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a>ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-2959533880711420732009-11-21T17:06:00.008-07:002009-11-21T17:18:45.422-07:00Born to make mistakes<span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br /></span><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 159px; height: 16px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">What are some typical characteristics of people who fall for the Mormon scam? —Desiree</span><br /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiZayYPjcr165SB8Ue3xFK3yUiDDjySrSYN3I2cmlIspdJZNSe8TQJQl5uig5SXwiVW8GhMjA1Tzv9uAgk0DhZNC3KHu0TFIQzfD3qXCRZx-RHSdaISL4MBfCyLbM2e06Gl1DDXBsNije8/s320/irrational.jpg"><img style="margin: 0pt 0pt 10px 10px; float: right; cursor: pointer; width: 225px; height: 248px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiZayYPjcr165SB8Ue3xFK3yUiDDjySrSYN3I2cmlIspdJZNSe8TQJQl5uig5SXwiVW8GhMjA1Tzv9uAgk0DhZNC3KHu0TFIQzfD3qXCRZx-RHSdaISL4MBfCyLbM2e06Gl1DDXBsNije8/s320/irrational.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a>Born into a Mormon family or befriended by Mormons.<br /><br />If you're trying to imply that there's something more to it, I think you're mistaken. If you feel confident that you personally would not have fallen for it under the same circumstances, I again think you're mistaken. Mormonism works for so many people not because *those* people are stupid but because people, in general, do not make decisions rationally based on impassive logic and critical thinking. And once that decision is made we tend to use most of our mental energy rationalizing and self-justifying rather than asking, "Was that the right choice?" Of course this applies to all people, believers and nonbelievers. Religions are an interesting view into the way humans think.ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-13641422371186164912009-11-07T00:28:00.001-07:002009-11-07T00:30:40.938-07:00The evolution of greed<blockquote></blockquote><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br /></span><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 159px; height: 16px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">How is the LDS (Mormon) church "greedy" when the church leaders aren't even paid? —Alissa</span><br /><br /><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"></span><blockquote><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">Many people accuse the LDS church of being greedy, but the leaders aren't paid so how can this be?</span></blockquote><br />First of all it's not all about getting paid. Anyone who's in charge of a budget is in a position to make decisions about how it gets allocated. Money is power, and the LDS church asks for a whole lot of money from its adherents.<br /><br />But don't kid yourself, there are lots of church leaders who do get paid, just not on the local level. General authorities are paid, and mission presidents are paid. And the church employs a ton of people. I doubt the leaders are paid a lot, but then I guess we wouldn't know that, would we? Your church isn't comfortable opening its books like most other churches.<br /><br />Anyway, the real answer to your question is more complicated than any of this, and I'm sure you're not really interested in hearing it. Ultimately the LDS church is greedy because it works. Because operating this way has allowed it to survive when other churches have failed. It asks everything from believers because it can, and because human nature is such that the more you voluntarily give to something the more blind you become to its flaws. Your church is greedy for the same reason a giraffe's neck is long. Ponder that one.ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-64625390192265050372009-11-02T22:30:00.003-07:002009-11-02T22:33:09.747-07:00Joseph Smith, executive producer<span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br /></span><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 159px; height: 16px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">What were the main issues Joseph Smith struggled with in the beginning of the mormon religion? —Wizard G</span><br /><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"></span><blockquote><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br />mainly that and also what do Mormons call people who don't follow their faith? i can't remember but it would be useful to know, thanks!</span><br /></blockquote>Gentiles maybe? That's a Book of Mormon term really. Mormons used to use it more; now you'd only hear people referred to as Gentiles if someone's joking around.<br /><br />I'm not sure what you're looking for in terms of Joseph Smith's "issues." In his younger years Joseph Smith strikes me as a person who wanted out. He wanted to find his place in his own family, wanted financial freedom for his parents, wanted to be trusted and thought well of, probably a lot like most others. But he was also ambitious and apparently not held back by fear or self-doubt. And he had ideas.<br /><br />Sometimes I wonder what sort of life Joseph Smith might have led were he born into the world today instead of being stuck in a little farming community with little hope of social mobility. Maybe he'd have been drawn to the clergy still, but oddly enough I've never seen Joseph Smith as a particularly religious man. I think it was just the train that happened to pass through town. No, when I try to picture a modern Joseph Smith, I somehow always see him as an actor or a performer of some kind. Makes you wonder how different the world would be today if young Joseph had had other opportunities to apply his talents.ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-16648268556621453212009-11-01T22:54:00.006-07:002009-11-01T23:03:44.845-07:00All in a day's labor<span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br /></span><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 159px; height: 16px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">What is the average number of converts Mormon Missionaries get on their mission? —HomoErectus</span><br /><br />I was a Mormon missionary in Korea in 1992–1994. I and my various companions had one convert baptism in the time I was there. It was a guy who was dating a member and wanted to marry her. I had a Korean companion at the time, and he sort of flew through the six discussions we used to do before baptism. <a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjyu9PhCZZxuKlzhflvQlbs69Zjt_1DzW_DS2afMAhJacspxjEihz8i0jkyOM3r4fW_bQ_WJmUzhoW4m1gUTLgV_zEYUbcNGtFu_bmWLhNL6R-DfWES5Q5vrp3rUqUq5sFQTxuEh4tDKhXs/s220/CIMG1632.JPG"><img style="margin: 0pt 0pt 10px 10px; float: right; cursor: pointer; width: 216px; height: 162px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjyu9PhCZZxuKlzhflvQlbs69Zjt_1DzW_DS2afMAhJacspxjEihz8i0jkyOM3r4fW_bQ_WJmUzhoW4m1gUTLgV_zEYUbcNGtFu_bmWLhNL6R-DfWES5Q5vrp3rUqUq5sFQTxuEh4tDKhXs/s220/CIMG1632.JPG" alt="" border="0" /></a>I worried that the guy wasn't ready for baptism, but he passed his interview. I wonder if my Korean companion is still participating in the Mormon church. Seems like he was sending most of his monthly stipend money home through the post office. I seriously doubt the guy we baptized considers himself Mormon today.ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-13852986999106059602009-10-13T22:24:00.013-06:002009-10-14T00:04:19.826-06:00Mr. Holland's Onus.<br />It's been a week now since LDS General Conference came and went. As luck would have it I heard only one talk, on the radio as we were returning from California. Turns out it was the one that seems to have created the most buzz among Mormons and non-Mormons alike. Elder Jeffrey R. Holland spoke about his views on the Book of Mormon. You can read his talk here: <a href="http://lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-1117-28,00.html"><url>http://lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-1117-28,00.html</url></a> although you may want to watch or listen instead to get a sense for how animated and emphatic he was in the delivery.<br /><br />It was the sort of thing that felt like it ought to be responded to, but I just haven't had the energy before now. Fortunately many others have, though. So for any Mormon readers out there who were wowed by Elder Holland's performance and wonder how any ex-Mormon could <span style="font-style: italic;">not</span> be impressed, here is a sampling of what ex-Mormons and outsiders have had to say about it.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/discussions/viewthread/18027/">Holland - Insulting those who leave</a><br /><a href="http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/discussions/viewthread/17981/">Jeffrey R. Holland Just Lost His Mind</a><br /><a href="http://equalitysblog.typepad.com/equality_time/2009/10/an-lds-gem-elder-hollands-opus.html">An LDS Gem: Elder Holland's Opus</a><br /><a href="http://saganist.blogspot.com/2009/10/general-conference-impressions.html">General Conference impressions</a><br /><br />I don't know Jeffrey Holland. He seems like a genuine and thoughtful man, and he's certainly an articulate and engaging speaker. I think as much as any current LDS leader he has attempted to understand folks like me who have studied Mormonism and choose not to be a part of it. At least he does a good job of addressing the opposing view in many of the questions he answered for the PBS special <span style="font-style: italic;">The Mormons</span>. You can read his interview here: <a href="http://www.pbs.org/mormons/interviews/holland.html">http://www.pbs.org/mormons/interviews/holland.html</a>.<br /><br />And that leaves me quite ambivalent in my feelings about this talk. Does he actually believe the things he's saying? Of course he must, and so I'm inclined to forgive a little evangelical zeal. But the talk is laden with unsupported claims and unsupported accusations and criticisms. Mr. Holland knows there is enough uncertainty about the veracity of some of his assertions to drive a Mack truck through, but you'd never get that from this talk. He's playing to the home crowd here, but I wonder if he gave any forethought to the impact on part-member families or member/non-member relations in general.<br /><br />So I'll leave the textual criticism to the authors linked above, and just say this. Mr. Holland, in defending the indefensible and abusing the trust so many have in you, you've made the world I live in a worse place. There is by no means a general consensus among informed people that Joseph and Hyrum knew they were about to be killed, that the Book of Mormon is "teeming with literary and Semitic complexity," that other authorship theories have failed, nor that I or anyone else has had to crawl around your stupid book to come to the conclusion that Joseph Smith was not trustworthy, and that the truth claims your church makes are ridiculous and impossible to reconcile with what we know about the world today.<br /><br />You came much closer to the truth with your answer in the PBS interview when asked about the Book of Mormon: "The Book of Mormon," you said, "is a matter of faith." End of story. The onus is on you to show why this book deserves consideration in spite of the mountain of contradictory evidence and the echoing dearth of positive evidence for its claims. Pointing to millions of adherents doesn't work. Lots of faiths have their millions. Pointing to Joseph and Hyrum finding comfort in the book doesn't work. David Koresh and Jim Jones were equally convinced of their various causes. All I see in your words here is desperate name-calling and an adamant refusal to reconsider cherished beliefs. The faithful will love you for it, but meanwhile their worldview is pushed ever further away from an ability to understand and have meaningful relationships with people outside the tribe.ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-9386163638975165452009-09-18T00:00:00.003-06:002009-09-18T00:12:19.414-06:00Faithful due diligence<span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br /></span><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 159px; height: 16px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">What mormon statememts, found on the internet, are not true? —Jess *For Jesus*</span> <blockquote><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br />I am considering join the church, and I am doing a final "review" before i go to baptism, and alothoug I feel it is right, some of the stuff on the internet scares me. So, can people tell me what is on the internet about mormons that is not true like beliefs,practices etc. And if possible please provide reference.</span></blockquote><br />Jess, it might help if you break down the "information" online into categories. Not all Mormons are afraid of investigating things online, but it's common (as you've seen here) for people to say you should avoid online sources or only go to lds.org or whatever. And basically that's good advice, for the category that's foremost in Mormons' minds. What they care about—all they care about in many cases—is the doctrine. Mormons are interested in current Mormon beliefs and culture. They're interested in things like gaining a testimony, changing behaviors, being involved with callings and temple attendence, that sort of thing. The internet is not going to help you here.<br /><br />So if that's all your "review" is about, I'd say you're already on your way to being a Mormon. But there are other categories of information that relate to Mormonism, even if most Mormons today don't care about them or aren't aware of them. Unfortunately for most of its existence the church has largely been able to tell its own story to its members, without the burden of scholarly review. And after decades of telling and retelling by the home team, you can imagine that what the typical Mormon understands today about Mormon origins and history can vary dramatically from the view of outsiders.<br /><br />There's also a third area of study that comes to mind here, and that is the relationship between what is commonly taught in LDS churches about the world you live in versus what the rest of the world believes through scientific study. This is where things get messy for the LDS church in my opinion. Of course you could say the same about religions in general. There's literally zero chance, for instance, that the earth was washed clean in a worldwide flood four thousand years ago. That didn't happen. For that matter Adam and Eve didn't start the human race six thousand years ago either. And dead people don't revive on command, and you can't make wine from water, and so on. So really if there's a difference here between the LDS faith and any others it's a matter of degrees only. However, the LDS church's origins are recent, and it makes many testable claims, like Joseph translating Egyptian or ancient Hebrews populating the Americas. Certainly that kind of info can be found, with sources, all over the internet.<br /><br />But again, if you're just talking LDS doctrine, don't waste your time with evangelical Christians who want to disparage Mormonism online because it contradicts their own view of the Bible or whatever. Those people never subject their own beliefs to the same scrutiny. If they did, we'd call them ex–evangelical Christians.<br /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://scienceblogs.com/corpuscallosum/images/Science_verses_faith_flowcharts.jpg"><img style="margin: 0px auto 10px; display: block; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 433px; height: 1293px;" src="http://scienceblogs.com/corpuscallosum/images/Science_verses_faith_flowcharts.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a>ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-31997404946773331202009-09-14T22:45:00.007-06:002009-09-14T22:58:06.510-06:00I know my church is true<span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br /></span><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 159px; height: 16px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">What are good questions too ask mormon people? —shelia c</span> <blockquote><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">my bestfriend is talking to the missonaries and she needs good question too ask them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</span></blockquote>Seriously? I take it your friend would like to challenge their beliefs, but it's probably no use. If she wants to Bible bash with them it'll go nowhere. Mormon doctrine is no less sensible than any other church's, and in some ways it's probably more internally consistent. The worst you could say about Mormon doctrine is that it's unorthodox compared to mainstream Christianity. So what?<br /><br />Of course your friend could ask for evidence for the church's claims, or point out any number of ways the church's view of the world is at odds with modern science. But this won't faze the missionaries either. It's the difference between God's perfect knowledge and man's limited knowledge. Or it's anti-Mormon lies trying to keep you from the truth.<br /><br />If I were in your friend's shoes and wanted to get these missionaries really talking rather than presenting what they're trained to say, I'd focus on how they came to believe in their church versus all the other possible "truths." They'll explain how they "gained a testimony" through scripture reading and prayer, but that's probably where it ends. What other Christian churches did they study and pray about? How did the feeling compare when they studied Scientology and prayed about it? How about when they studied the Koran and prayed about that? Did answers come more readily when they prayed to Zeus or Thor?<br /><br />Even if they just want to talk Mormonism, how did they decide to go with the Brighamites and not the FLDS church? Did they pray about both? If you can get them really thinking about their epistemology and the obvious fact that their current faith is mostly an accident of birth just like most other people's on earth, then at least you've opened their eyes. Don't expect to see any overnight changes in their beliefs though. That only happens on its own time, maybe years later, and maybe never.<br /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://www.mapsorama.com/maps/world/map_world_religions.gif"><img style="margin: 0px auto 10px; display: block; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 1102px; height: 598px;" src="http://www.mapsorama.com/maps/world/map_world_religions.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a>ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-11334182606312682002009-08-31T00:07:00.006-06:002009-08-31T00:12:30.463-06:00The problem with golden plates.<br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 159px; height: 16px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/brand/purplelogo/uh/us/ans.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">What happened to the Mormon Golden Plates? —Jack</span><br /><br /><div class="content">Gone. Disappeared. Whisked away by an angel. It happens with golden plates you know. I see you doubting, but that's actually Satan trying to keep you from finding truth and happiness. And also if you don't believe you won't be with your family in the eternities. Sorry, dude. You couldn't muster a little faith? There were witnesses you know. They all signed the testimony Joseph wrote for them. That was good enough for Mark Twain.<span style="font-weight: bold;"><br /></span><br /></div> <div class="reference"><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://userweb.port.ac.uk/%7Ejoyce1/abinitio/images/twain3.jpg"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 100px; height: 123px;" src="http://userweb.port.ac.uk/%7Ejoyce1/abinitio/images/twain3.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a>"I could not feel more satisfied and at rest if the entire Whitmer family had testified." —Mark Twain, "Roughing It"</div>ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-14184736133580875992009-08-06T00:21:00.002-06:002009-08-06T00:53:34.793-06:00To teach and preach and work<span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br /></span><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sch/gr/ga_ans_uh_logo.gif"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 160px; height: 20px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sch/gr/ga_ans_uh_logo.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">How do I tell my parents I don't want to go on an LDS mission.? —Red Shift</span> <blockquote><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">This is very hard for me. Both my parents are Mor</span><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">mon and expect me to go on a mission. For years I've been seen as the golden boy of my church and of my family and everyone expects me to go and set an example to those younger than me. My grandparents on both sides are absolutely staunch LDS members and also have these same expectations for me. However, I simply do not believe in my church enough that I could go about for two years trying to convince other people to join it. How do I tell my parents that I do not want to go? I think my mother will be more understanding than my father. I</span><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">f anyone who answers here went on a mission, LDS or otherwise, please tell me if I am missing anything.</span></blockquote><br />A couple of thoughts here, and for background I was raised Mormon and served a mission in Korea, but am no longer LDS. The fact is, there's very little I like or admire about Mormonism now. I think it sucks for families like yours (and mine) where not everyone wants to participate, but the church causes believers to feel hurt when loved ones don't conform.<br /><br />But, having said that, I have never regretted the time I spent as a missionary. Now granted, I was a total believer at that point, so it didn't cause me any grief to share what I "knew," and the Koreans never really took to Mormonism anyway. And while I was there I did a lot of growing up, made some lifelong friends, learned a language and culture and learned to survive on my own in a relatively safe and controlled environment. Kids can do a lot worse in their first years out of high school.<br /><br />So I guess my point is you can still choose to go and make the best of it if you see no way out or don't want to make waves. You'll have some good experiences, and you'll be a lot better off mentally than most of the other "elders" who buy into the guilt and power trips that mission leaders lay on. Maybe submit your papers and see where you get called. If it's Bolivia or Cuba or some other dangerous third world country, say no! You can always back out and reapply later.<br /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/vsh0326l.jpg"><img style="margin: 0px auto 10px; display: block; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 398px; height: 400px;" src="http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/vsh0326l.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></a>If, however, you feel you're ready to assert yourself and step off the Mormon assembly line, I think you can best do this by simply delaying. Tell the bishop you're not ready spiritually or whatever. Tell your parents the same thing. And your aunts. And anyone else who asks. Decline to speak about it further. Mormon culture does not teach people to respect personal boundaries, so you might have to get used to just saying no or walking away. You don't owe anyone an explanation. Best of luck to you.<br /><br />GuapElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3642844911281889530.post-52130882536129778242009-08-06T00:16:00.003-06:002009-08-06T00:18:28.823-06:00Evangelical fail<span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"><br /></span><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sch/gr/ga_ans_uh_logo.gif"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 168px; height: 21px;" src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sch/gr/ga_ans_uh_logo.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">Why didn't god include the book of mormon in the old and new testament? Why did he hide it for 1900 years? —I CURED MY YELLOW TEETH</span><br /><br />He did. It's called a triple combination, and you can ask any Mormon to show you theirs. As for hiding it for 1900 years, turns out not all events happen concurrently. Sort of like God hid the New Testament from Moses. Fail.ElGuapohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.com0