How do you feel about the Mormons use of the term ‘anti-Mormon’? —Desiree

I think all the responders who gave the dictionary definition of "anti" have missed the point. Actually two points.

First, note that the label is "anti-Mormon" and not "anti-Mormonism." Mormons are people; Mormonism is a collection of ideas and beliefs. I don't hate people for being Mormon, in fact the vast majority of people I care about on the planet are Mormon. But I have no particular fondness for their beliefs, hence it would be fair to say I am anti-Mormonism.

The second point is that the label itself is pejorative and triggers a specific response in the Mormon mindset. Namely, it works as an ad hominem attack that allows the believer to automatically discount whatever the "anti-Mormon" has said. Language and labels are powerful things, and the LDS church is very adept at using them to protect itself from critical examination by members.

That's another topic all by itself, but as a simple example, I think most Mormons would agree with this statement:

"I believe that the gospel encompasses all truth and that we should seek to learn all that we can while here on earth."

Several LDS scripture verses talk about gaining wisdom, intelligence, knowledge of the world around us, and so on. But I think most Mormons would also agree with this statement:

"I believe that we should strive daily to build our testimonies against the temptations of the adversary, and avoid anti-Mormon literature as you would the plague."

See, in every other area of study we're encouraged to gather evidence, weigh alternatives, and draw conclusions. But the church itself gets a free pass. "No need to look too closely here," it seems to be saying, "just trust us. Have faith." And that, my friends, is exactly why you should check it out. Not just by asking "the source," but also looking at disciplines that cross paths with Mormon beliefs, like linguistics or archeology. And yes, by asking those who are "anti-Mormonism" too, and trying your darndest to actually hear what they're saying.

False promises... —OnePartPerBillion

At the moment I am trying to figure out how my sister deals with it. TBM family, 5 kids, and a husband out of the country and away from the family earning a paltry income while family resides in low-income housing. He is TBM also. She's got too feel lied to I'd think. All those promises that going along with the program and popping out the kiddies will be the greatest good... and you will be happy. But then, once you are locked in it is all about enduring to the end and happiness won't come until you DIE (and even then its no guarantee.) Goddess I am glad I escaped before getting so locked into the program but it tears me up to see what my sister is going through.

Sigh...

truly confused wrote:

What is wrong with people that they think this is ok? They don't plan on staying here so it isn't like they will pay taxes back into the state here. Yet, the church tells them to have babies so they keep on doing it.

Amen. I have seen that in every Mormon ward I've been in. This religion seriously impairs people's ability to make reasoned choices. All the big ones are laid out for you and are non-negotiable. The others depend on some weird notion of getting an emotional confirmation while at the same time ensuring it wasn't you feeling good about the decision but actually a deity living in the pleasure center of your brain.

And then of course they can never learn from mistakes either, because if it didn't work out it was a trial. "I don't know why God wanted me to make this move, but I trust that He has a purpose."

Anti-mormons, can you relate to this Book of Mormon character's standpoint? —CLRK

"I do not teach the foolish traditions of your fathers, and... I do not teach this people to bind themselves down under the foolish ordinances and performances which are laid down by ancient priests, to usurp power and authority over them, to keep them in ignorance, that they may not lift up their heads, but be brought down according to thy words. Ye say that this people is a free people. Behold, I say they are in bondage. ..."

Yes, I can relate to the agnostic Korihor. Only about 12% of the population belonged to a church in Joseph Smith's day, and mock conversations between preachers and these "anti-Christs" were a popular rhetorical device, published in pamphlets in evangelical protestantism at the time.

B. H. Roberts noted the similarity in the stories of Sherem and Korihor, supposedly 400 years apart and written by different authors. Roberts wrote: "The two Anti-Christs--Sherem and Korihor--the stories of their belief and the treatment of them, how alike they are! ... They are all of one breed and brand; so nearly alike that one mind is the author of them, and that a young and undeveloped, but piously inclined mind. The evidence I sorrowfully submit, points to Joseph Smith as their creator."

I guess I don't know why you're asking the question. It doesn't seem particularly noteworthy to me that Joseph was familiar with the arguments of the various sects and non-religionists of the time.

Source(s):

See Grant Palmer, "An Insider's View of Mormon Origins," p. 125-30.

major guilt trip —miracle

Long talk with DH last night. He kept asking why I am so happy and comfortable with myself--I have told him more than once that the church stifled who I was and now that I am free I feel whole. Well, that started a tirade by him regarding our kids. A few months ago I did tell my oldest some of what I learned about the BoA and JS. I also told him dad may not be happy he knew that, well, turns out, ds talked to DH a little. DH was quite upset with me, accused me of trying to turn the kids against him and the church, so, did I go too far? Should I not tell my kids why? Should I let them continue to be indoctrinated? DH claims the info is too heavy and they can't understand it, he said that I don't understand it (this is his mo, I am spritually ignorant where he, DH, has a better understanding of all things mormon). I am vascillating between "I shouldn't overwhelm the kids with all this" and "if I wait, it will be too late for them." ... I also asked DH what kind of church has to hide information, that it might be too overwelming to young ears, he didn't answer, he just accused me of hurting the kids, basically saying "should we let our kids watch us have sex since they need to know?" Very frustrating. I hate thinking I have hurt my kids by telling them some stuff, I hate that it has been hard for them to see DH and I go opposite directions. Is there no chance for peace and harmony in a mixed marriage?

You certainly haven't harmed your kids. They're not invested in church beliefs the way adults are. It hasn't cost them anything, and they're too young to have any sense of their own mortality so they're not likely to worry about the what-happens-when-we-die stuff. The only harm I see is in your relationship with your spouse.

As difficult as it may be, I think you have to communicate with each other about how you're going to approach religious beliefs with the kids. "Dad believes this, and mom believes this, and it's OK that we're different." Ideally you might even have these conversations when the spouse is in the room, so it doesn't look like you're trying to demean the other's views. And I would not tell kids they have to choose.

The same thing we do every night —ElGuapo

"Gee Brain, what do you want to do tonight?"

"The same thing we do every night, Pinky. Try to take over the world."

Am I the only one who always thinks of The Brain when I visit the PostMo board? I don't know why the rest of you come here, but for me it really is this simple. I want to bring down this church. I want to take away the power it has over my life and my closest relationships.

I want to empower others with the courage and the words to articulate what's wrong with Mormonism. I want my kids to grow up in a healthy environment, where people behave rationally and critical thinking is encouraged. I want to take away the veneer of sacredness and the automatic respect that is afforded religious ideas, no matter how nutty or dysfunctional.

I want my family back and my friends back. I want them to see people in living color, to pick their own path in life, to spend their time as they choose. To drop all the judgmental crap, the hypersensitivity to swearing, coffee, "immoral" media, and on and on. To save their tithing money, their temple nights, and the other half of their weekends.

I want this church out of my life ... so here I am, night after night. How about you?

Church consolidates European Areas —averagejoe

Maybe someoene brought this up and I missed it but from Aug 1st the Europe West & Europe East Areas are being merged. This means that in the last ten years have gone from three areas, down to one.

We all knew that the church has been shinking in Europe, Monson admitted it once at a German conference I was at. I think this re-organisation is indactive of a real malaise. Growing businesses don't consolidate their structures. Businesses in trouble do.

I notice too that they've done the same thing in Australia, I don't know much about the situation there but I'm guessing it must be similar.

Link to press release:
https://www.lds.org.uk/news_details.php?id=768&ntp=1

Equality wrote:

I prophesy that you will see a lot more quoting of 1 Nephi 14:12: Quote: 12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon all the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.

The last time I heard that verse quoted, I was a TBM visiting the Church of Christ (Temple Lot) visitors center in Missouri. Our guide was none other than the prophet himself, who wrote revelations in his journal and doubled as the visitors center tour guide. I'm sorry I don't remember his name.