Monday, July 14, 2008

Is this whole mormon stuff 4 real? all this stuff about Joseph Smith? —ladybling c
i had a couple of "mormon " church people came around my house preaching and stuff . but what they say is it really for real ?
For anyone who is seriously considering this, I hope you notice the card trick here. The LDS responders all say "don't take my word for it," but they *do* want you to take their word that you can somehow know whether Joseph Smith was a credible witness by praying.

The fact is truth doesn't always feel good. If you discovered your spouse had been cheating on you, that wouldn't feel good. Does that mean it didn't happen? Of course not.

Joseph Smith married 34 women. A third were already married to other men, and a third were teenagers. Helen Mar Kimball was only 14 when Joseph convinced her she could save herself and her entire family by marrying him. Does that make you feel good?

Yes, he's just a man and could make mistakes. But he's the man you're trusting when you join Mormonism. Personally I don't find any reason to trust him, from the evolving First Vision™ story to the anachronistic Book of Mormon to the totally fabricated Book of Abraham translation.

It's a demonstrable fraud. But if you listen to the missionaries and pray with faith and a desire to believe, I have no doubt you'll get your answer.


David said...

Your whole argument is rather nonsensical to say the least. Are you saying if you take the Biblical promise of James 1:5 literally and put it to the test("If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.") you may somehow recieve a false witness from god?

As for the whole cheating wife metaphor....of course if you found out that truth about something like that it wouldnt feel good. but its an entirely different matter. You are Comparing apples to oranges and saying they are the same. Praying to recieve an answer about weather or not a church has the true gospel of jesus christ and recieveing a true witness of it from GOD would undoubtedly feel GOOD just as your previous previous metaphor would feel BAD.

And if it isnt true you will recieve no such witness. It is as simple as that. Stop trying minimalize the words of god with your null psychobabble

If you are investigating mormonism take the advice of god by Studying it and asking him if its true, you will find for yourself if it is truly inspired or quite simply a "wolf in sheeps clothing"

ElGuapo said...

Hi david. No, I'm not saying you'll receive a false witness from god. I am saying people of every religious persuasion have the same good feelings about their own church.

I don't understand your point about the cheating wife metaphor. It sounds like we agree that how something feels in your heart is not a good indication of whether it's true. I've been uplifted and inspired by reading Charles Dickens, but it's still fiction, right?

I'm sorry, that last comment just hurts my head: "take the advice of god by Studying it and asking him if its true"? As long as god is giving advice, why doesn't he just tell you it's true at the same time?

David said...

sorry to hurt your head need only view the top comment where i cite James 1:5 for some clarity. If you believe the bible to be the word of god it says that you can recieve direction by praying to god and you will recieve an answer.

I dont think you can compare a witness given to you by god and a warm fuzzy feeling after reading charles dickens....They are not the same. I have felt spirtual witnesses and had those warm fuzzy feelings too and they are not equal. One is divine the other is not.

I'm not sure where your coming from at this point becasue it is clear that if your christian and believe in the bible than you would agree concerning James 1:5 and the ability to recieve knowledge from god. You may not be a christian at all tho so if that is the case you wouldnt have to

The hypocrisy is only if you call yourself a christian and find the bible to be the word of god yet disagree with it. I wont touch the cheating wife metaphor again...the two comparisons are so different i can really sit here and defend a position that is so blatantly obvious without feeling like you sound.

As for this incoherent comment...
"As long as god is giving advice, why doesn't he just tell you it's true at the same time?"

I wont presume to tell god at exactly what time or place he should testify to his probably shouldnt either. But both the Bible and The Book of Mormon are testaments to it already so im not sure where your hangup is.

Hopefully that was simple enough. if you still dont understand it. I think Im going discuss theology with someone who is better versed in the bible rather than charles dickens.